An Interview with the Dream Foundry’s Art Contest Coordinator Dante Luiz

With the Dream Foundry Art Contest wrapping up soon, we asked contest coordinator Dante Luiz a few questions about the art contest, illustration, and the experience it fosters.

 

Dante Luiz is an illustrator and occasional writer from southern Brazil. He is one of the two Art Directors for Strange Horizons, and his first graphic novel was published in 2020 by comiXology Originals ("CREMA", written by Johnnie Christmas).

 

Illustration work tends to be different than other kinds of art. While the fundamentals are the same, what do you find translates from less illustrative art education to illustration? What doesn’t translate over? Do you find there are specific challenges to illustrating SF/F? 

It's hard to capture the entire mood and feeling of a story, I think it's what makes illustration so difficult. You really have to vibe with the story, you really have to get to pass the right tone. When I'm choosing artists for Strange Horizons, for example, I see it like matchmaking. The art has be in the same tune with the story, and the same goes for artist and writer. Additionally, in SFF, sometimes it can be difficult to portray the speculative element. Right now, especially, there are a lot of stories out there that are character-centric and inwards, and the artist might find that the right "feeling" does not show the magic or science, and finding a balance takes work. You have to push yourself out of the obvious to showcase both.

 

Portfolio evaluations are a big part of finding a career in illustration and animation. Can you tell us a little about the selection process for the contest? What are you looking for in submissions? What constitutes a strong body of work versus one or two stand-out pieces in a portfolio? 

Consistency is key. I think every artist has that one work that we did on a whim that just feels better than the rest of our work, but a general sense that the person knows what they're doing and then can do it more than once is what I generally look for. Also a sense of style, cleanliness, knowing how to do more than one thing (nothing kills a portfolio for me more than no backgrounds, or just busts with characters facing left, etc).

 

Do you have any advice on how to pull together a portfolio, whether for this contest or for job applications? 

Put up only recent, complete works. When I'm hunting for news artists, I often find myself bored if the portfolio archive is too long, or lists too many older works. 6-12 pieces seems to be the sweet spot for art, along with consistency. Less = better, only complete works = better. Sketches, works in progress and such are great for social media, but it's not what people are looking for in a portfolio.

 

What sorts of opportunities did you see or wish you had when starting your illustration career? How do you see the Dream Foundry Art Contest benefitting beginning- or early-career artists? 

When I was starting out, I felt like resources were being "hoarded" by those who already had access to them, and those resources were not made public, but it turns out I also didn't know how to search for those resources. It's very important to put yourself out there, send your work to magazines, find calls for submission, and not rely only on social media. The Dream Foundry Art Contest can give a beginning artist this initial push, and gives credibility and visibility for future works as well.

 

Artists are finding community through social media, especially through prompt challenges and theme showcases. How do you feel the art contest fitting into this ecosystem? 

Social media is great for showcase, but artists are also battling against the algorithm to be seen. People with less following tend to be less noticed, and a contest gives everyone a fairer chance to be seen!


Make a Thing Month(s)!

There's a chill in the air tinted by the ever-increasing energy of spooky season starting. Which means for those of us in the northern hemisphere, sweater season, warm drinks, and falling leaves. It also means that rolling around the corner are the months of creating things, of making and sharing (or not sharing!) art and writing and whatever else you might have in mind. Whether you're an artist, a writer, or just a creative looking for inspiration from prompts, October and November are excellent times to come together, find a spot in the community among other creatives, and encourage each other to make things.

The goal of these challenges isn't to gain popularity, or to compete with each other. You could go the entire next few months quietly creating away, supported by the community, and never share a thing. The important part is the process! Let the creative juices flow!

Under the cut is a collection of art challenges/prompts. Most of these are intended for use for art, but the creators are quite flexible - tag them so they can see (if that's your sort of thing) or keep them to yourselves, they can even make great prompts for poetry or short fiction.

And, as NaNoWriMo peeks around the corner, be sure to pop by the Dream Foundry Discord server (discord.gg/dreamfoundry) and join the community of writers there for support, sprints, helpful advice, and more! Not a writer? Come by anyway - the Dream Foundry server is a space for all creatives, artists, game devs, comics makers, and more!

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Interview with Artist Hasani Claxton

Who are some artists and/or illustrators who have influenced your work? How and why?

I've always loved artists from the Golden Age of American Illustration. NC Wyeth, in particular, because of his painterly approach and how he brought elements of Impressionism into his artwork. My biggest influences among contemporary illustrators are Greg Manchess and Donato Giancola, both of whom are oil painters, like me. I studied with them at the Illustration Master Class in 2009 and watching their painting demos was awe-inspiring.

HASANI CLAXTON | Maryland State Arts Council

Rhea Ewing led the Dream Foundry's Official Media Exploration Club in a discussion of the theme of vulnerability in art, including your illustrations “A Well-Earned Rest” and “Broken”. Can you tell us a little about the theme of vulnerability in your work?

I did "Broken" and "A Well Earned Rest" when my children were younger and really into fairies. I became frustrated by the lack of Black fairies and decided to create my own. Rather than paint them as cute, Disney-style pixies, I decided to focus on their strength, even in the face of profound loss and struggle.

Leaving the World Behind" by Hasani Claxton | Black folk art ...

How has the field been changing in the past ten years, and how do you see the current health crisis impacting the field?

When I graduated art school, we were still mostly promoting our work with postcards. Nowadays a strong online presence is crucial, especially on social media. All of my recent freelance work came from people who saw my website or Facebook page. Also, the rise of self-publishing has opened up some opportunities for freelancers. An indie publisher may not pay as well, but they offer valuable experience.

The Covid crisis caused many gallery exhibitions to be canceled, which was extremely disappointing. At the same time, being stuck inside gave me a chance to work on new personal work and I've recently seen an unexpected uptick in freelance commissions. I suspect because most freelance illustrators work from home anyway, we'll be able to weather the crisis.

The Art of Hasani Claxton

What have been some challenges for you, as a working artist? What have been some of your triumphs and joys?

I used to be a lawyer and early in my art career, when I was struggling to make ends meet, I often wondered if I'd made a huge mistake going to art school.

I began submitting artwork to the Spectrum Fantastic Art Annual in 2008 and kept trying every year. I just got in last year. Around the same time, my artwork was chosen for an exhibition at the National Gallery of Jamaica, my first at a major art institution.

The Art of Hasani Claxton

What is some advice you could pass along to people just starting out in the field? How can we work to support each other?

Be persistent. You will face a lot of rejection, but keep working on your craft and submitting your artwork. Eventually you will find your audience.

One of the things I miss the most from art school is getting critiques from my peers. Often getting other artists' perspectives can help take your artwork to the next level. Forming Critique Groups is a great way to tap into that collective creativity.

HASANI CLAXTON | Maryland State Arts Council


Interview with Artist Rhea Ewing

Who are some artists and/or illustrators who have influenced your work? How and why?

My work has been heavily influenced by fine artists like Do Ho Suh and Kate MccGwire. I love both of these artists’ use of many small things to create a powerful whole. Graphic novelists like Alison Bechdel, Craig Thompson, and Leanne Franson have been my biggest influences in the comics side of my work. All of these artists have created things that inspired that “art moment” in me--where ideas and experiences connect together and a profound way.

Collaborations by Rhea Ewing

 

You are currently leading the Dream Foundry's Official Media Exploration Club in a discussion of the theme of vulnerability in art. Can you tell us a little about the theme of vulnerability in your own work, and why you find it particularly compelling as a topic of discussion?

In my fine arts and illustration work I’m very interested in the intersection of human ideas and the natural world. I’m very deliberate in my choices of the species of plants and animals I depict, but there’s a level of metaphor and visual language that removes it from the more raw, personal vulnerability that’s in my comics and graphic novel work. In comics, I work in non-fiction, largely personal stories, that place me in a much more vulnerable position. I tend to want to downplay my own experiences and approach things in a very academic way, which doesn’t make for good comics. I’m lucky to have an agent and editor who understand my work so well and have guided me to show more of my own vulnerability.

This tension in my work between the academic and the personal made vulnerability and especially intriguing topic. It’s been a delight to dive into all these different illustrators’ work with the lens of vulnerability.

Insight by Rhea Ewing

How has the field been changing in the past ten years, and how do you see the current health crisis impacting the field?

Woof, I sure would love to have a crystal ball here. The biggest way the health crisis has impacted me personally is the lack of art shows, galleries, and fairs. I actually make most of my income through the fine arts market (go figure), so the loss of all of that for 2020 has been rough. For me personally, that’s meant I’ve been much more focused on production for my upcoming graphic novel FINE: a comic about gender.

As for how the field has changed, I’m not sure I can speak to that. I feel like my path to where I am now has been so weird and has run against so much of what others know to be true, I’m not sure I can generalize it in a useful way for overall industry trends.

Affection 1 (detail) by Rhea Ewing

What have been some challenges for you, as a working artist? What have been some of your triumphs and joys?

I think my biggest challenge has been finding a place where I feel authentic in my creative work, knowing what my work is doing and why. Pretty much all of the advice I got in school–to pursue graphic design and illustration and comics to support my fine arts work, that sort of thing–turned out not to work for me. Freelancing left me miserable and broke. Graphic design brings out my inner perfectionist asshole. Though it will probably be different this year due to the pandemic, for the last few years my fine art work funded my graphic novel work and not the other way around. I’ve found a lot of joy in connecting with people who “get” my work, and in exploring what I can do with my mediums of choice.

Panels from FINE: a comic about gender by Rhea Ewing

What is some advice you could pass along to people just starting out in the field? How can we work to support each other?

Creative advice: Keep focused on what you like and want to grow about your artistic practice. It’s easy to get very focused on what “success” is and worry about failing. Embrace it. Perfect art is an illusion anyway, just communicate.

Business advice: Always have a contract, don’t work for minimum wage or less, and remember that it’s better to have a side job than waste your creative efforts working 80-hour weeks freelancing for peanuts.

Panels from FINE: a comic about gender by Rhea Ewing

Flights of Foundry, May 16-17, 2020

Flight of Foundry

Dream Foundry is thrilled to announce Flights of Foundry, a virtual convention for speculative creators and their fans. Registration is open and the convention will take place May 16-17. Our guests of honor are:

Comics: Suzanne Walker and Wendy Xu
Editor: Liz Gorinsky
Fiction: Ken Liu
Games: Andrea Phillips
Illustration: Grace Fong
Translation: Alex Shvartsman and Rachel S. Cordasco

In addition to panels and information sessions, our programming will include workshops, a dealer's room, consuite (yes, a virtual consuite!), and more.

There is no cost to register, though donations to defray costs and support Dream Foundry's other programming are welcomed. Dream Foundry is a registered 501(c)3 dedicated to supporting creators working in the speculative arts as they begin their careers.

To register, go to: https://flights-of-foundry.org/registration/
For more information about the convention: https://flights-of-foundry.org/
You can learn more about Dream Foundry or check out our other programs by visiting our website: https://dreamfoundry.org/


Learning at Home

While we’re at home and practicing social distancing, many of us are looking to learn something new or hone our skills. There are a lot of classes being offered online right now. Here are a few that are both free and potentially of interest to those of us in the speculative arts.

Let’s start with the courses that happen at a specific time:

Next up are a slew of classes that you can check out anytime:

If you’re willing to sign up for skillshare.com, you can get two weeks for free. And if you do so, you might be interested in these course offerings:

Have you found a really neat class that you’d like to share with our readers? Or perhaps you’re teaching one? Be sure to tell us about it on our forums!


Influential Comic Artist George Herriman

George Herriman and Krazy Kat are no longer well known outside of art history and cartooning circles—it has been 110 years since the first appearance of Krazy—but there are few men who contributed more to the language of the comic strip, and fewer still to influence so great a number of the medium’s auteurs.

Even in the circles where Krazy is still fondly remembered, its creator can sometimes be a cipher: decades after Herriman’s death, very little about his life was known to the public. He was an intensely private man, and in 1971, the probable reason for this became known with the discovery of his birth certificate:

George Herriman was black.

More specifically, Herriman’s birth certificate lists him as “Colored,” the 1880 Census further listing all of his known relatives as “Mulatto.” Herriman and his family were members of a caste known in New Orleans, the city of his birth, as Free Creoles of Color.

In 1890, Herriman, age ten, moved with his family from New Orleans to Los Angeles, California. Along the way, they left behind their heritage. This was not unheard of; while Free Creoles had been afforded more rights than other people of color, that was soon to end with Plessy v. Ferguson and the enshrinement of Jim Crow.

Image of George Herriman in a Hat

For the rest of his life, Herriman would pass as white. He was often identified as Greek—even in the 1980s, a major book claimed him the son of a Greek baker—or as Turkish, Irish, or French. Not even his daughter knew the truth, listing his race as Caucasian and his place of birth as Paris on his death certificate. In almost every surviving photograph of the man (there are few, as Herriman was notoriously photo shy) he wears a hat; to the only coworker he is known to have mentioned his “negro blood,” he said he wore it to hide his kinky hair.

His first comic strip was 1902’s Musical Moose. Virulently racist by today’s standards, it stars a caricatured black man whose attempts to masquerade as a member of other races end in exposure. Knowing what we do about Herriman’s background, it is difficult not to believe his anxieties were rendered in ink.

Krazy Kat first ran in 1913, most of its characters having first appeared in Dingbat Family in 1910. (While doing Dingbat Family, Herriman often found he had time left in his eight-hour workday and so started to create strips of a mouse, Ignatz, tormenting the titular family.) The dramatis personae are three: the titular cat, Krazy; a mouse, Ignatz; and Offisa Pup, a dog acting as police officer. The plot is simple: the cat madly loves the mouse, while the mouse hates and terrorizes the cat, often by hurling a brick at their head. The magic is to be found in Herriman’s art and in the infinite variations and setups.

Comic drawn by Herriman

Like most of Herriman’s work, it ran in Hearst papers, and the reception is perhaps best characterized as “beloved but unpopular”; Hearst’s papers targeted a working-class demographic, and they had little interest in the proto-psychedelia of Krazy Kat. Due to objection from Hearst’s editors, it at first appeared in the art and drama section, but Hearst himself was such a fan that he gave Herriman a lifetime contract and a guarantee of complete creative freedom, unheard of in that era as well as this one.

But Krazy Kat had its fans, and they included H. L. Mencken, Jack Kerouac, Willem de Kooning, Gilbert Seldes—who devoted an entire chapter to the strip in The Seven Lively Arts—and e.e. cummings, who provided an introduction to the first collection of Herriman’s work in an era when comic strips were rarely reprinted. It was the first strip to establish that comics could be art and was enormously popular with the era’s intelligentsia.

When Herriman died, the syndicate attempted to replace him—but upon seeing a strip not by Herriman, Hearst immediately canceled the strip.

Herriman’s influence can be seen in the work of almost every cartoonist of note to follow him: Dr. Seuss, Bill Watterson, E. C. Segar, Al Capp, Walt Kelly, Hugo Pratt, Charles Shulz, Will Eisner—the list is endless, and many of those artists were drawn to cartooning specifically because of Krazy Kat. None less than Walt Disney praised his “contributions to the cartoon business, so numerous they may never be estimated.” The Ignatz Award, one of cartooning’s most prestigious, is named in his honor.

(For those interested in learning more, I recommend Patrick McDonnel’s Krazy Kat: The Art of George Herriman and Krazy: Geoge Herriman, a Life in Black and White by Michael Tisserand. The first years of Krazy Kat are available online.)


Interview with Artist Cory Skerry

Editor’s Note: The interviewee for this week’s interview deliberating lowercases the first person pronoun as a way to decolonize English; by this perspective, i is not more important than the other English pronouns she, you, or we.

Who are some artists and/or illustrators who have influenced your work? How and why?

I've been a devoted fan of Sophie Campbell's work since i first saw her sketches for Wet Moon on her DeviantArt page in 2002 or 2003. When i emailed her out of the blue to ask about the subtle shading effects in her work, she kindly explained ink washes to me—and in the days before YouTube had a tutorial for every art supply imaginable, i couldn't have learned without her help. Since i have no formal art school training, it was also lucky for me to come across Becky Cloonan, whose incorporation of graphic design into her illustrations and book covers helped me break through some preconceived notions about what illustrations are. Lenka Simeckova's bizarre, mischievously creepy subject matter attracted me, but once she had my rapt attention, i was equally ensnared by her palette, lines, and composition.

Recently, i've found my process and confidence impacted by gazerlies. They are constantly making art with whatever is available, including items they fetch from the trash. This fearless, mad-science approach has inspired me to stomp my way through experiments instead of sticking to my comfort zones.

What media do you use? Do you think any media are better, or can shape, how speculative elements are depicted in a work?

I use nearly everything, but most of my commercial speculative work is done in ink washes (thanks, Ms. Campbell!), digitally in Photoshop, or a combination thereof. I also have a deep love for Copic markers, watercolor, and aerosol.

I work at an art supply shop on the weekends, and with that plethora of specialized product knowledge kicking around in my skull, it is my professional opinion that all media is best for speculative elements.

How has the field been changing in the past ten years?

I've noticed free stock photos taking the place of magazine illustrations and book covers. While i understand it's expensive to commission illustrations, i also wish more publishers understood there are inexpensive (or even free) ways to showcase more relevant art. As an ex-graphic designer i'm supportive of thoughtfully selected stock, but i'm never going to like a bland landscape presented as an “illustration.” #sorrynotsorry!

What i love, though, is that publishers have finally begun shedding the lie that minority representation undermines sales. I thought that was garbage when i first heard it from some big shots in 2007, and once i realized that was a prevalent attitude among publishers, i began to notice that “whitewashing” everywhere. By 2020, i'm happy to say it's vanishing—i see PoC and queer visual content from legit publishers all the time.

What have been some challenges for you as a working artist? What have been some of your triumphs and joys?

Managing my time well is challenging as a freelancer—because i work from home, sometimes there are interruptions or distractions that i'd never get in an office (some crows just begged for seeds outside and i, a complete sucker, acquiesced). I have a lot of those work hours to manage: i am an illustrator, but i'm also on the submissions staff for Tor.com novellas, i'm a freelance fiction editor, and i sell art supplies. I stayed home from the art supply shop to finish some illustrations today, in fact. (Sorry, Alan!)

Fortunately, i love all of my jobs, and spending 100% of my time doing things i enjoy is the ultimate triumph.

What is some advice you could pass along to people just starting out in the field? How can we work to support each other?

Since i don't have a lot of time for mentoring, sharing resources is the strongest way i can pay it forward. I think every illustrator interested in working with corporate clients should check out Dear Art Director. The fantasy art blog Muddy Colors has helped me on many occasions (a post on fitness completely changed how i structure my day as a freelancer). I wish i would have known about Schoolism as soon as it started, because it offers excellent, self-directed online art courses for far less than college or art school. WetCanvas is a fantastic forum for questions about traditional supplies!

Most of all, i think you can support other artists by obstinately being yourself. Each moment in my life that someone really influenced me as an artist, it was because they wallowed in what they loved until it became the foundation for their successes.


Goals, Not Resolutions

It’s the time of year where I usually assess what I’ve done and plan for what I want to do next. For me that means acknowledging some of the invisible tasks—tasks I never add to my to-do lists but are present every day—as well as examining my successes, my failures, and being honest with myself about why they occurred. This helps me understand what I can do better next time and helps me accept that sometimes in life there are events that impact my performance that I can’t help (like, for example, having back-to-back colds… for six months).

What is the difference between goals and resolutions?

In my mind, a typical New Year's resolution is vague, like “being a better person by being more forgiving,” or “exercising more,” whereas goal-setting involves a concrete plan to enact these goals so that they can be accomplished, step by step and week by week.

How do you create goals?

If you’re interested in creating goals for this next year, there are some criteria to evaluate whether your plan involves resolutions or goals. Goals should be:

  • Specific
  • Concrete
  • Independent from outside forces
  • Achievable

Here are some examples:

NO YES NOTES
Become a better writer Practice writing dialogue Becoming a “better writer” is vague and therefore unachievable. Practicing writing dialogue, however, may make one a better writer. It is specific, and one can take classes, read passages in books about dialogue, or perhaps go to plays and take notes.
Be a podcaster Produce one twenty-minute podcast per month  With a concrete goal, there are specific tasks to be achieved that can be broken down. To do this, you would need to create twelve twenty-minute scripts, find narrators, equipment, a theme song, and then set aside time to record and edit.
Win an art competition  Submit to at least ten illustration competitions Winning a competition is dependent on outside forces, essentially on a judge, whereas submitting to competitions is a task that an artist/illustrator can undertake.
Write a novel Write a novel This is trickier: achievable for one person is always not achievable for another. One person will binge-write a novel in a month; another will plug away it every day, finishing up at the end of the year. One person can write four novels in a year and another will write one novel every five to ten years. Sometimes, too, life intervenes: a lost day job can mean time spent stressing and searching; an illness can stop tightest plan; a kid can drop out from college and move back home. Every creator has their own way of making; only they can know what they’re capable of and can assess what their own life will allow.

Personally, when I’m creating my goals, I try to have multiple goals in different areas (usually craft, submissions, and production) so that I can work on different aspects of each goal each month. Others like to work on specific projects, however. Something like a Kickstarter may involve a year or more’s worth of work.

Break it down and plan it

Once you have developed a few goals, break each goal down into steps. Usually I start by breaking it down on a monthly basis, and then a weekly basis, and then I schedule time each week to work on that specific task. Of course, it doesn’t work quite as clear-cut in practice: I get colds, or I bring my son to preschoolers’ birthday parties, etc. But with a distinctive weekly plan, I tend to stay on track. Actually using that time to accomplish what you’ve set out to is, of course, another matter. You may try gamifying it, or word-warring with friends, or Instagramming your sketches, or turning on a program like Freedom so that you can’t spend your two dedicated hours on the internet scrolling through Facebook.

What are your goals? What have been your challenges in meeting your goals in the past, in terms of meeting them? What are you going to do to ensure that your goals are met this upcoming year? Please join us on the forum to talk about what you’re planning on doing for 2020.


Interview with Nathalie Grey - Artist

Who are some artists and/or illustrators who have influenced your work? How and why?

Dan dos Santos, for sure. I remember back a few years at a convention someone was looking at the cover for My Life as a White Trash Zombie and exclaimed that was the ugliest cover they'd ever seen. I was flabbergasted. And quite pissed. I mean, look at it! It's gorgeous and so outside the box. That crooked cigarette?! I'm in love. All he does is magic as far as I'm concerned. Other artists are Yayoi Kusama (so bold!) and Tommy Arnold (the Sacred Throne series makes my inner Chihuahua chase her tail with savage glee). Anne Cain is a long-time favorite of mine. Too many to name, alas.

Do you think any media are better, or can shape, how speculative elements are depicted in a work? How do you find it impacts the different genre cover illustrations?

I don't believe any media is better at shaping what goes or not for book covers. But I love that The Computer (and increasingly more people are adept at producing art thanks to it) is able to facilitate blending different media. I remember back in the olden times of dinosaurs how you had to photocopy things and make layers and gah. Do not miss that time. To come back to good ol' Photoshop, it's really opened doors for folks. You don't have to dedicate an entire room for all your art crap, or even have a window in the room. A computer, a graphic tablet, and Bob's your uncle. I'm hearing purists say, "But it's not art, Nat, you're a fool and an impostor!" To which I'd reply, meh.

How has the field been changing in the past ten years?

I see trends come and go. There used to be wall-to-wall black covers with red elements. Then we moved into magenta and teal, those inseparable lovers. And now I'm seeing a lot—and I mean, a LOT—of those close-up covers with the floral elements intertwined with the typography. And a lot more authors are creating their own covers now, which is amazing. I say go for it! There were very few authors who did this when I started back in the dial-up period. It's liberating, just like self-publishing has been.

What have been some challenges for you as a working artist? What have been some of your triumphs and joys?

This is not my first career, frankly, but it's the one I enjoy the most. There are days where I'm not feeling it and drag my feet (hello procrastination, old friend!). But those are overwhelmed by days where I email back and forth with an author about their ideas and concepts for their cover, and this, THIS is where the gold is. I mean, to have someone say to you, "What about some magic? Maybe floating bits? I dunno, you go for it." That trust in me for a project that I personally know takes months, sometimes years, and blood and tears and coffee and midnight frustration-walks in the living room, and that bitch Muse who won't talk. For my authors to trust me with their story is the best feeling in the world. Truly.

One thing I'd wish for: that we could pry open genre doors. It seems there's this expectation of what will go on a cover based on genre. I mean, sure, you want the busy reader to know exactly what she's looking at. But! But. I wish we could include more "left field" concepts sometimes, and not follow conventions right off a cliff. Give me ducks on a sci-fi cover. Give me a plate of metal and a rusty rivet for romance. A cover is not a CV for what's inside. It's an image to sell the book. To get the reader's attention. Let us play, dammit!

What is some advice you could pass along to people just starting out in the field? How can we work to support each other?

My one and only bit of advice is to not ever take advice from someone unrelated to your project. For sure, do listen to opinions, form your own, drop the rest. And I wish we had more contract revision services out there.